Sunday Summary at Aragon, Part 1: Pedrosa vs. Marquez – Who Is to Blame?

09/30/2013 @ 7:40 am, by David Emmett48 COMMENTS

Sunday Summary at Aragon, Part 1: Pedrosa vs. Marquez   Who Is to Blame? lorenzo pedrosa marquez motogp hrc 635x421

The Aragon round of MotoGP left an awful lot to talk about in all three classes: Alex Rins’ masterful victory in Moto3, forcing Maverick Viñales into an error; Nico Terol’s emotional win in Moto2, dominating all weekend after illness; Scott Redding and Pol Espargaro’s epic battle for the Moto2 championship, which Espargaro came out on top of, though only just.

Jorge Lorenzo’s astonishing speed at what should have been a Honda track; Marc Marquez’s astounding victory, moving him closer to the 2013 MotoGP title in his rookie year; Valentino Rossi’s wily race, holding off first Stefan Bradl and then Alvaro Bautista to get on the podium; and much, much more. But I won’t be talking about any of that tonight.

I won’t be talking about it, because what started out as a minor mistake turned into a massive incident, with a spectacular crash as a result, leading to an ongoing investigation by race direction and a lot of talk about dangerous riding. Do the facts justify the debate? In my opinion, no, but the issue needs addressing, and so address it we will.

First, the facts, insofar as we know them. Jorge Lorenzo led away from the line, and was quickly hunted down by Marc Marquez and Dani Pedrosa. Pedrosa passed Marquez cleanly on lap 5, on the way up to the Sacacorchos, or turns 8 and 9. Marquez sat behind Pedrosa for a lap, harrying his teammate throughout.

On lap 6, on the way into turn 12, Marquez made a small mistake, getting a little too close and braking a fraction too late. Seeing that he was going too deep, Marquez tried to stand the bike up and run it wide, in an attempt to avoid prejudicing Pedrosa’s race.

He did not quite manage to avoid contact with Pedrosa, just clipping the back wheel of his teammate, a contact which at first seemed to have no effect on Pedrosa. Marquez ran wide and off the track, Pedrosa continued for a few meters, before highsiding suddenly and unexpectedly.

What had happened, it emerged later, was that in the contact, Marquez had broken an electrical cable connecting the rear wheel speed sensor to the ECU. The cable was located just above the swingarm, and Marquez had ripped it either with his elbow or with his clutch lever.

Marks on Pedrosa’s swingarm suggested Marquez’ clutch lever was to blame, while marks on Marquez’ leathers were evidence that the rookie got a taste of Pedrosa’s rear tire.

The electrical cable turned out to be a crucial part of the Honda’s traction control system, according to team principal Livio Suppo. When Pedrosa then opened the throttle, the traction control had stopped working and the tire bit and flung Pedrosa off.

Though the Spaniard was not seriously hurt in the incident, he suffered a couple of big bangs on his lower back, hips, and groin. He was in pain, and could not walk properly.

Those are the facts, but they leave more questions open than they answer. The first question, and perhaps the biggest question, is whether Marquez is to blame for Pedrosa’s crash. That is not as easy to answer as it at first appears, and both sides will make a passionate and reasonable argument either blaming or exonerating Marquez for the crash.

What is clear is that Marquez made a mistake, and that he touched the rear of Pedrosa’s bike, but from there, the waters soon turn very muddy indeed. So muddy, in fact, that Race Direction have taken the incident under investigation, and will not make a judgment until they have seen more data and a further technical report from HRC due at Sepang.

It could be two weeks or more before Marquez knows what his fate will be.

Firstly, did Marquez’ contact damage Pedrosa’s bike such that it crashed? It would appear so. Certainly, when the bike was shown on TV – and here Pedrosa’s manager Alberto Puig plays a rather peculiar role, inviting the Spanish TV cameras in to Pedrosa’s garage to get the damage on film – the cable was clearly broken.

What was more surprising is that the cable broke and was not dislodged. At one end, the sensor is connected to a metal tab, which is held in place by a screw. At the other end, the cable ends in a connector, which sits in a plastic clip. The clip could have sprung open, the connector could have come loose, but the cable simply ripped.

The only mark on Pedrosa’s bike is a small black stripe where what looks like the clutch lever contacted the swing arm. The contact between Marquez and Pedrosa was so minor that Pedrosa could hold his line through the corner, the rear of the bike moving almost imperceptibly. The problem came when Pedrosa opened the throttle, the bike spitting him off without warning.

The Honda, it appears, uses only a single rear wheel speed sensor, and once that breaks, the safety mode the system goes into leaves the bike without traction control. Pedrosa’s first touch of the throttle throws him off the bike and onto the ground.

This raises two related questions: the first is why such an important cable was so exposed. In this case, contact with another rider knocked the cable loose, but a crash or a trip through the gravel, or even being hit by a stone thrown up by another bike. Which, given the frequency with which the bikes travel through the gravel and come out unscathed, makes the breaking of the cable even more unusual.

The second is why Honda’s system – which is incredibly complex, and combines factors such as engine speed, gear, lean angle, track angle, suspension compression, throttle position, engine torque output and many others to calculate the correct amount of power to deliver to the rear wheel – uses only a single rear wheel speed sensor.

The system used by Ducati uses two, one on each side of the wheel to insure against precisely such an occurrence.

Why, also, is the failure mode of the traction control system to switch off completely? With so many inputs, why remove TC, instead of ramping it up to a very high level, protecting riders from such an event? Is it a conscious decision to put control back in the hands of the riders, in the hope that they can continue the race, duly warned that the TC is not working correctly?

The answer to these questions is known only inside HRC, and is unlikely to ever emerge. When I asked Livio Suppo whether Honda will take another look at the design of the sensor and cable, he said merely, ‘yes’, and then walked away.

Then to the question of contact. Did the contact cause the crash? It is true that the contact caused the damage which caused the crash, but could Marc Marquez be reasonably expected to know that such relatively minor contact cause such a major incident?

If one rider hits another with sufficient force to run them off the track or cause them to crash, then they may be assumed to have been aware of the consequences of their action. But does a relatively minor contact – large enough for Pedrosa to register it, but small enough for it not to knock him off his line – which dislodges a sensor in a vulnerable location constitute foreknowledge of the consequences of their action?

Should contact be allowed at all? The previous Race Director Paul Butler certainly believed so, as long as such contact was an unintentional consequence of a racing move.

There is something to be said for that argument: If contact were to be punishable by exclusion, then the Moto2 and Moto3 grids would be permanently down to ten riders or less. The thrilling battle between Scott Redding and Pol Espargaro at Aragon would have seen both riders excluded, both men having pushed each other to the very limit, yet neither complained.

Does Marc Marquez have previous form for contact? Certainly. His 2011 crash with Ratthapark Wilairot was perhaps the low point of his career, and the fact that he was not banned for at least one race was a black mark against former Race Director Butler.

Dani Rivas received a two-race ban for a less dangerous incident at Silverstone this year, a sign perhaps that new Race Director Mike Webb is taking such incidents more seriously.

Marquez has also come close to running into the back of riders in braking maneuvers throughout his career, though he has bettered himself since moving to MotoGP, something he says is a conscious effort to be more careful. And yet at Jerez – before the clash with Lorenzo – Marquez nearly ran into the back of Lorenzo a number of times, especially at the end of the back straight.

Bradley Smith, who also raced against Marquez in Moto2, says of Marquez that he never keeps any margin of safety, always seeming to brake to his braking markers, regardless of whether there is another rider in his way or not.

This disregard for fellow riders is what has caused Marquez to receive such criticism. Jorge Lorenzo at Jerez, and now Dani Pedrosa at Aragon both roundly attacked Marquez’s riding, saying he was too close to the limit too often. He is an accident waiting to happen, they both implied, referring to incidents in the past with previous riders.

Throughout the discussion, there looms the specter of Marco Simoncelli, hanging over the discussion like Banquo’s ghost, with no one daring to speak the name of the rider so often criticized as being dangerous, and who ended up dying in a racing incident at Sepang.

This, it seems, is why Race Direction is holding the incident between Marquez and Pedrosa under investigation. Jorge Lorenzo keeps insisting that the only thing that taught him to change his attitude was the race ban he received after Motegi in 2005. A race ban may help Marquez learn the same lesson, retaining his aggression by applying it more prudently.

The trouble is, none of the incidents Marquez has been involved in since his move to MotoGP have deserved a race ban, being on the limit of acceptable rather than outright dangerous. By cleaning up his act, Marquez has made it more difficult for Race Direction to teach him the lesson which so many other riders would like him to learn.

Based on the evidence we have available to us at the moment, it would be an injustice of Marquez received a race ban for the incident at Aragon. It would not even be particularly just to hand him another penalty point, given that the incident lies half way between braking mistake and excessive aggression.

What the further details being provided to Race Direction show in the future, we cannot know, but it seems hard to believe they would have much influence. At the moment, Race Direction is inclined to regard this as a racing incident, and I would be inclined to agree.

This does not mean that the incident was fair on Dani Pedrosa. Pedrosa clearly had the pace to win at Aragon, and only a truly bizarre sequence of events saw him robbed of it. Did Marquez trigger that sequence of events? Certainly. Did Marquez cause Pedrosa to crash? That is a much, much more difficult question to answer, and one to which I would answer no.

Pedrosa’s crash was down to a minor error, a design mistake, and an unforeseen chain of events. It is yet another example of the inexplicably poor luck which has dogged Pedrosa throughout his career. And Pedrosa definitely does not deserve that bad luck.

Photo: HRC

This article was originally published on MotoMatters, and is republished here on Asphalt & Rubber with permission by the author.

Comment:

  1. Jimbo says:

    Brilliant post race article David as alwasys, and agree with you. If you wanted to “prioritise” fault and action i would say the following.

    1. Bikes bump eachother. Full Stop. Bann contact in races you stop intentional touching but not acidental touching. Ergo bikes still bump. Honda need a safer TC. To be honest i am very suprised at the lack of a back up sensor a la ducati.
    2. If the sensor hadnt been damaged we wouldnt even be talking about this. The touch was far gentler than other contacts from other raceres that weekend. In that respect if you bann marquez you have to ban the riders with the harder contact impacts too. If a kid A bumps into two kids in the playground: he bumps kid B much harder but B stays on his feet, and A bumps gently on to C who un luckily falls on his knee and cuts it open. if you dont punish for B you cant punish for C. If you do punish for C you have to punish for B.

  2. Norm G. says:

    re: “Do the facts justify the debate? In my opinion, no, but the issue needs addressing”

    wait, you just said the facts don’t justify the debate. websites and series organizer’s otoh…? want clicks and viewership.

  3. Jimbo says:

    Just to finish as i ran out of space:
    Marquez probably is pushing things too far at the moment. Sit him down point at a Simoncelli race and say look. be careful. would you want that on your concioience (no idea how to spell sorry!).
    Otherwise if you ban him there are at least a handful of others who need banning too

  4. TexusTim says:

    the incident is marquez fault no matter how you look at it …he is the rear rider he is the one that has to pass without contact…thats in the rule book end of story..take this race points away and make it a real fight for the championship..if he wins it with these points it will forever stain his rookie championship run.
    He was taking shot at pedrosa even before the crash..remember he said “pedrosa has to win I do not..this is my rookie year and Im not expected to win a championship”
    WELL ITS HARD TO WIN WHEN YOU TAKEN OUT BY A STUPID KID THAT THINKS HE CAN GET AWAY WITH ANYTHING.
    Im disgusted with him, dont care if he wins or what..we dont need that type of rider setting the example for all the moto 2 riders coming up or next year or it will be laiden with crashes and injury’s

  5. DC4GO says:

    Pedrosa should man up at this point no one really knows if Marquez damaged his T/C sensor or not.. Danny always has an excuse or someone to blame for not pulling through and winning the MotoGp title. It’s racing contact will happen deal with it.

  6. Yung says:

    Great article… helped me understand what wasnt easily seen from TV

    There is no question that Marquez is pushing things to the limit. In this case, I don’t think he can be penalized. However, it is so unfair that Pedrosa’s championship hopes are done as a result. I was more so feared for his health after that nasty highside…

    What a disaster for Factory Honda…

  7. Duncan Thomas says:

    How soon we forget how Pedrosa took out Nicky Hayden with a bone head move while Nicky was in contention for the championship. What was Puig’s comment on that incident?
    We have seen this close racing from many at the front over the years such as Rossi. You have to exploit your strengths , such as late breaking, to give the opportunity to go for the pass.
    This is a racing incident and gives pause to how riders now depend on the electronics to ‘save’ them instead of rider bike control.
    How many people will watch when it becomes just a bike parade after the first turn? Riders like Marquez are why people are watching again.
    DT

  8. L2C says:

    As per usual, the apologist comes to the fore to stoke the flames of those who think and understand otherwise. Typical David Emmett. Writes brilliantly at times, then follows it up with rubbish reasoning.

    One has to be living quite the nice life to not take into account that when Marc clashes with other riders, bad things tend to happen to those riders. A mentally plush life, if not a happily forgiving external one. Attempting to indirectly place most of the blame on HRC’s engineers is another stroke of Emmett’s disingenuousness. According yesterday’s incident to Dani’s persistent “bad luck” is another lever used to unburden and absolve Márquez of much blame for happened.

    Let’s just get it out in the open, shall we? “Marc Márquez can do no wrong when ratings are at stake.”

    This has to be the weakest argument I have ever seen David put forth. Not only does he cite specific examples that would strongly support a conclusion utterly contrary to the one he has drawn, his reasons for doing so lay entirely with his misconceived notions of what entertainment is and should be. That in order for it to be worthwhile at all, it has to fit within his tired bag of storytelling tropes so that he will have something to say come Monday.

    Racing may be entertainment, but it is also real. MotoGP may have it’s cast of characters, but it’s no WWF/WWE. It deserves far more respect. David generally accords it that. But sometimes, well, he inexplicably writes junk like this article. But if enough people are reading it…

    Completely disappointed.

  9. Rob says:

    Was Bautista banned after crashing into Rossi…TWICE..this season? No. This is only under investigation because Marquez is fighting for the championship. Let’s face it, this type of stuff happens in racing, it is in fact the type of racing we WANT to see. So why penalize?

    Don’t get me wrong, sure rotten luck for Pedrosa, but that’s part of the game sir. Until I see an intentional spearheading into another rider/bike, I say let em race. Just as pointed out by above, the rules for GP should affect Moto2 and 3, those boys basically ride pillion with each other every race with no complaining. Marquez coming from the Moto3 and Moto2 classes surely makes him more comfortable with that type of racing I’m sure.

  10. L2C says:

    @ David Emmett

    What happened yesterday had absolutely nothing to do with Dani! Not with so-called bad luck, not with him. Have some respect. Or at least show some.

  11. Andrew Macpherson says:

    Honestly more that anything I fault the fact the cable could be so easy damaged, and the TCS so easily rendered useless without any kind of failsafe.

  12. Odie says:

    I agree with three points:
    1) Marquez needs to be more careful or, as Jimbo said, lest he ends up like Simoncelli (RIP).
    2) Rubbin’ is racing. These bikes should be so delicate that bumping into them will kill the systems that the riders rely on. Not that these riders couldn’t ride with out these thing if need be, if they were aware they weren’t there. I think Honda needs to make their bike more robust against events just like this.
    3) Totally shitty luck for Dani.

    One additional point: Sh!t happens in racing. You can say to Marquez “dude, you gotta be careful” as a result of the contact, but you can’t say Marquez is to blame for a crash because of contact like that (doesn’t upset the other riders bike). Marquez exposed a design flaw.

  13. Craig Brooks says:

    Marc is aggressive and at times over-aggressive for sure.

    Needs a simply warning and reminder that yesterday was an accident, but the results were terrible and affected not only the outcome of the race, but the championship.

    The best thing about it is that after realizing he was too hot for Danny’s speed, he picked the bike up instead of dive-bombing him like we have seen countless others do.

    To penalize for this move… would be ridiculous; a stern warning is all that is needed. They ride on the knife edge and this can happen… especially when you are crushing the competition your first year out…

  14. JS says:

    It’s not Marquez that needs a talking to it’s all the other riders who are having their collective arses handed to them by a 20 years old ROOKIE. Lorenzo being the only one so far to even remotely put up a fight against the Joker of the pack.

    Year after year Pedrosa has had the combined might of HRC and Repsol supporting him and year after year he has failed to win the championship. Dani dosen’t deserve the title – he needs to fight for it – just like Marquez.

  15. Chaz Michael Michaels says:

    A big punishment for “the Pedrosa incident” is punishing Marquez for the sins of his past. Marquez does way crazier crap than that! give him another race he’ll come up with some more doozies.

    I think Marquez should have been punished more harshly for going like a madman under yellow flags two races ago and turning himself and his bike into a couple of gravel comets–almost taking out the entire safety crew tending to Crutchlow’s bike!!

    If only Stoner were still in MotoGP. OMG, there would be war in that Honda garage.

    Whatever happens–Marc Marquez is the most exciting rider in a decade.

  16. I too remember Pedrosa’s bonehead move that nearly cost Hayden the Championship. And some of the most exciting racing in MotoGP was when Rossi and Sibernau, Biaggi, Stoner, et al were racing and rubbin’. I’d prefer there be no TC, but lacking that, the riders need to learn how to ride a bike without it. And I agree Pedrosa has been in top flight equipment since he entered MotoGP and hasn’t won a championship yet, so maybe it’s time for Honda to cut him loose and pick someone who CAN.

  17. Will Connor says:

    If Marquez is fined or penalized it’s the worst penalty in the history of Moto GP. Nicky Hayden, Alvaro Bautista and several others have done far more egregious maneuvers this season. Marquez’s own overtake of Lorenzo earlier in the year was far worse. I don’t think Marquez is over his limit at all. Lorenzo and Pedrosa are having to ride harder than they would like to keep pace and crashing. They both did break a collar bone trying to keep pace. I expect a penalty so that the championship is more interesting.

  18. Mark says:

    Chaz Michael Michaels says:
    “””I think Marquez should have been punished more harshly for going like a madman under yellow flags two races ago and turning himself and his bike into a couple of gravel comets–almost taking out the entire safety crew tending to Crutchlow’s bike!! “””

    +1
    This is key
    The fact that he is continuously allowed is what is wrong.
    Yes once or twice a racing incident but instead he has a history of me first & will use others
    as berms when he decides to ride over his ability into a turn.

    Instead he should wait for the clean pass & not be riding over his head.
    He should have been penalized big time for the Yellow Flag incident.
    This one not so much but of a warning note was in place for previous berm turns then they add
    up & he IS penalized.

    Folks mention Simoncelli …..That is all fine & well if Marc goes that way but what will not be fine is if he causes another to go that way thru his fault & not theirs.

    Folks who always like to claim he is what is exciting & why they watch should wake up.

  19. Bryan says:

    Great article of all issues.

    Just wondering how many races Rossi was banned for, how many points he was docked for his ‘contact’ intended or not. That guy was the example of aggressive racing. MM tried to avoid Pedrosa, the same can’t be said of most other contact.

  20. MTGR says:

    What people need is a reality check.
    The promoters and fans complain racing is too boring and there are not enough passes. At that level passes are always going to be close and filled with risk. I’m all for safety but how can you argue MM is unsafe when he saw the error and did everything possible to avoid the incident? Just as he did successfully against Jorge and others. And more successfully than Pedrosa did to his teammate Hayden when he was a rookie. I’d imagine that passing someone as good as Pedrosa or Jorge requires a fair bit of commitment. If you can make that commitment and either pass or avoid a crash 90% of the time I’d say you are doing about all that is humanly possible. Unless you want to wait for the perfect opportunity that might not ever come (watch virtually any race from the 800 era as an example, you know, that era that almost killed the series through excess boredom). Start penalizing people for any suspect pass attempt and the riders will have to go back to that. Naturally Jorge thinks a suspension is needed. He needs any advantage he can to make up points. This is the same guy who just said he would race an automatic without reservation if it was faster. That’s natural for racers. See Stoners comments after Rossi pushed him off at the corkscrew or took him out in France. Both moves by someone considered by many to be the most talented rider in history, proof nobody can be expected to be perfect every time they try a pass at this level. As for comparisons with Simo, in my mind that supports my opinion not refutes it. True, he took similar risks but he ad a pattern of not managing the results as well as MM has. And those attempts instantly won him a legion of fans and made the racing more interesting. And ultimately had nothing to do with his death, which was an unfortunate error made on his own, the riders collected after the fact not taken out from behind during a pass attempts. Proof racing is inherently dangerous, no matter how talented you may be. You’d think if Livio was so worried about his conflict of interest rider he’d push Honda for safer system that could withstand a minor bump, something the forced implementing of lever guards would imy happens in this class.

  21. Paul McM says:

    I watched the overtake, impact, and aftermath, about a dozen times on a hi-rez computer screen, then a half-dozen more times in a Hi-Def home theater with a 14-foot wide screen. I say MM was reckless and deliberately made an unsafe move that put another rider in peril. Personally, I think MM should be penalized, and severely. I believe the high-side was, indeed, directly attributable to the severed TC sensor cord. However, if you watch the impact multiple times you can see the impact rock Dani’s bike and cause it to pitch on the suspension — this wasn’t a soft nudge. Heck, MM had black tire rubber all over the left sleeve of his leathers. MM will end up killing himself, or maybe causing serious injury to another rider unless he gets a clear message that truly reckless and dangerous riding won’t be tolerated. I suspect MM will receive some “pay-back” in future races, if not from Pedrosa, from someone else in the field.

  22. JW says:

    Dorna needs MM. they need him to stay alive and well, also the other riders all contribute very much to the sport and need to be resonably safe (from MM). Slap a big penalty on him to help him learn the lesson that needs learned. As with all of us, pain is the best teacher. This could save his life, which at the end of the day is good for Dorna. A preservation of Dorna’s best asset right now. It’s good business.

  23. Pemberton says:

    everyone complaining and calling for a ban has no perspective and is basically clueless & delusional. how unusual on the internet.

    ask anyone else in the field or of note, rossi, stoner, hayden etc. basically everyone who is not lorenzo or pedrosa because they expected to walk in a championship, ask them and you will hear only rationale and respect for marquez’ abilities.

    rubbing is racing. babies.

  24. Michael Turner says:

    Good comments here. When asked in the post race press conference if Marquez should be suspended, Valentino jokingly replied…”Yes, two or three seasons.”

  25. Gaz says:

    Just because MM did not knock Pedrosa off does not mean he wasn’t responsible for the crash. If MM had NOT clipped Pedrosa the DP would NOT have crashed, FACT. It is not only a case of penalising him for this accident it’s a culmination of constantly riding like an idiot.
    I would remove the 25 points to put him in in the same position as Pedrosa before the race and ban him for 1 race to make him think hard.
    All this “racing is rubbing” bollocks is pathetic. I was once hauled in front of a Clerk of the Course for taking out another rider when I dived underneath causing him to crash. He had a huge highside surrounded by other riders which could have resulted in a serious outcome. Looking back I deserved a big smack in the mouth off the rider when he came back from the medical centre. I should also have been given some penalty as it DID NOT change my riding habits. Young brave and stupid without a thought for anyone else. There is good racing, hard racing and not giving a s*** racing. Marquez is a brilliant rider with no sense of self preservation. Go ahead and break your neck but don’t involve others.

  26. Pemberton says:

    Gaz,

    You were hauled in front of a clerk cause you’re some nobody that caused an incident in some nobody race, not marc marquez. Apples & dogshit mate.

    It means precisely that he wasn’t responsible. Marquez tapped another rider. A mistake sure but it was nothing and guess what, such things happens pretty much every race. It’s called RACING, it’s a racing incident!

    Pedrosa high-sided due to a freak electronic fault after-the-fact. If not for that, this conversation wouldn’t exist. Boo-hoo, another excuse for a guy who’s spent 8 years too long on the best team achieving no results.

    To assume Marc Marquez doesn’t know what he is doing is the height of ignorance, arrogance and pretty much absolute idiocy.

    He’s in the best team in the world because the most talented rider in the world personally vouched his freakish abilities as his replacement. He has the confidence of the biggest and best names in the business and he has proceed to blow away every record in the book. It’s a once in a lifetime phenomenon you are whinging about.

    Mistakes happen, just because you cannot even begin to comprehend the data a freak like Marquez is processing and fully in control of when he is pushing so hard does not mean that he is reckless, so quit with the kneejerk reactions. If marquez bowling balls into someone bautista style, then sure lets have this conversation but in every racing incident he has had, he has shown a remarkable level of control ride up to the bleeding edge of the limit. It is freakish, not dangerous or deadly.

    To even mention simoncelli in the same breath is also ridiculous, he actually was dangerous on numerous occasions.

    Listen to Nakamato ‘Marquez knows what he is doing’.

  27. birchtree says:

    Well, you make your own luck – or in Dani’s case – NOT. MM is on the limit, and that’s what HRC rider should be at all times, and we all know – when you’re on the edge strange things happen. MM was far more dangerous in Moto2, using his bike as a bowling ball , but in MotoGP I can’t find enough praise for the kid. Riding MotoGP should be “on the limit” thing. Pedrosa waited too long to be a champion on the best bike, and when Schwantz pointed that out he and Puig (more Puig) went steaming. As usual, KS34 had a point.

  28. “A mentally plush life, if not a happily forgiving external one.”

    One of the best examples of passive aggression I’ve ever seen. *golf clap*

  29. L2C says:

    @ Trane Francks

    Yeah, and you couldn’t do any better. *boos*

  30. L2C says:

    What many and the author of this article of nonsense are saying is that HRC should be held to blame because the new breed of riders are banging swingarms and not just elbows, handlebars, brake levers and fairings anymore. That if Marc had only banged the swingarm with his brake lever nothing worse would have happened. That Marc should be allowed to race that close and bang around the most sensitive parts of his opponents’ machinery -regardless of what happens because of it- because “racing is rubbing”.

    There is such a breakdown of logic in all of that, nothing of pertinence is left.

    A reminder to those who have forgotten, Marc also races on an RC213V. He knows the location of the traction control cables and sensors on the bike. He knows what it would mean if the cable attached to the traction control sensor is severed during a race. All of this he knows, yet somehow according to the brain-dead logic subscribed to in this article and portions of this thread, he shouldn’t be held responsible for the part that he played in the accident that he had with Pedrosa yesterday.

    Yes, Marc was in an accident yesterday. Marc managed to finish and win the race, but he was involved in an accident before then. Why this is not obvious to at least the author of this article -David Emmett- is unexplainable.

    If there is anybody on the grid who should be held responsible for getting himself into a position to set off a “massive incident” yesterday, it is Marc Marquez. One cannot reasonably dismiss the contact he made with Dani Pedrosa’s bike as meaningless and inconsequential. It is impossible.

    By not being mindful of a machine identical to his, Marc was the catalyst for yet another disaster. If Marc “knew what he was doing,” then he would have exercised due care and avoided being in a position to make contact with the rear of Pedrosa’s bike. There would have been no contact had Marc been cognizant of the situation.

    Marc should pay for the consequences of his mistake. If HRC is at fault for a design flaw that contributed to the accident, HRC should also pay – but Marc should pay, this is clear. He was involved, he was the catalyst, and he had the knowledge beforehand to know what he was getting himself into by racing so close to a rider who races the same machine that he races.

  31. MM says:

    Pemberton et al; you guys have never raced motorcycles, have you? Don’t bother lying about it to avoid looking like the idiots you are, everybody reading this who has knows you haven’t. Believe it or not, those who actually have, even at a “dogshit” level (ooh, Pemberton, you’re so cool with that burn… not. Dumbass.) really do know something you don’t. I wish you could know how stupid you sound.

    Emmet and the rest of you certainly do seem to have some man-boy love for Marquez going, but you might want to pay attention to the kid’s own words. He admitted he was out of control when he hit Pedrosa. He admitted he was out of control when he hit Lorenzo; in fact, he flat out said he went into that corner out of control because he knew that if someone crashed, it would be Lorenzo, not him.

    Is he talented? Friggin’ right he is. Is he frequently riding over his ability and hoping fate, his bike, and other riders will save him? Yeah, he’s that too. Rubbin’ is racin’ is a cool soundbite, but sometimes rubbin’ is an idiot who doesn’t know where his limits are. It’s an unfortunate fact that those guys usually end up hurting others far more than themselves.

    For you folks who think it’s all fair game, please, go out on a bike and bang into each other a few times. You don’t even have to be going that fast, 25 mph or so is more than enough. If you have the balls to actually try it (yeah, I know you don’t) get back to me when you’re out of hospital and tell me just how “exciting” rubbin’ really is.

  32. damn says:

    It was marq’s fault as he said it him self. And now for once they need to do something. And it was always mm and again and again and again and again. It just doesnt stop with this boy. So now is the time to act properly and ban him the next race. Its the only way for him to understand. If he would kill him self its his problem if he hurts or kill another rider……… so for all the mistakes, and mistakes he calculated very smart he must be punished this time. Let him feel what others have felt always. Let him know what it is to be taken out of the title fight. You never read anything else about mm…… im sorry, to wide, to hard, i couldnt etc etc.

  33. @L2C: “Yeah, and you couldn’t do any better. *boos*”

    Dude, when you’re feeling smug about passive-aggressive behaviour, you’re losing the plot. That’s just sad. I’m out.

  34. dokterdewe says:

    a cable went off and a hi side is done ?? wait… isn’t this the great and powerful MotoGP riders… the almighty sportbike race ? why would a single cable off made a rider whose had incredible riding skills flew away ?

    i guess CASEY STONER made a great forecasting when he said “a comeback to MotoGP ? sure.. if they put aside the bunch of electronics and make the bike more powerful.. more fun!”

    and maybe if Dorna done this.. Lorenzo will not having his super smooth flowing riding again… back to Rossi-Marquez-Stoner triple play of hardship and skill….

  35. @dokterdewe: “and maybe if Dorna done this.”

    That presumes that Dorna has the power to make the manufacturers do such things. I assure you, Dorna does not. The MSMA are the ones to drive the vast majority of the technical direction of MotoGP. If the factories want electronics to the sky, electronics to the sky they shall have.

    Gone are the days the likes of Garry McCoy would be more sideways than straight in the corners. :-(

  36. L2C says:

    @ Trane Francks

    No, that’s just the kind of response that your passive-aggressive response deserved. You can’t escape the irony of what you did either.

    One could say in a million different ways that someone has their head in the clouds. That you didn’t like the way I said it is fine. Doesn’t bother me a bit.

    But as for losing the plot, you taking out of context what I said just to be an ass – well, whatever to that. I just threw some high-school junk back in your face after you threw some in mine. Plus, what you did is the tried and true tactic of derailing online discussions and arguments that people have and make, so I had no respect for that move.

  37. @L2C:

    Name calling now? Seriously? *rolls eyes*

  38. L2C says:

    Go ahead, have the last word, papa bear.

  39. Josh says:

    Just want to say.. Isn’t this racing? What has society become these days. We always need to assign blame?

    IMO being upset at margquez will ruin racing. This is racing. It’s DANGEROUS. Crashes happened when you push a bike to the limit.

    What if we rid the bikes of all this electronic control devices. And left control up to the rider and their right hand. The only reason Pedrosa crash is because he doesn’t have to have throttle control exiting the corners. He can just mash it and let the computer do the work. Just a thought (and I’m not blame Pedrosa for poor throttle control, I’m point out the fact that it’s about electronics and not the rider).

  40. Josh says:

    Holy hell.. I should proof read before I hit enter….

  41. Josh says:

    MM,
    If you race and don’t accept being in the hospital as a consequence… You’re in the wrong sport bro.

    Take up golf.. I’m pretty sure that won’t lead you to a long hospital stay. The whole point of racing is pushing limits. I’d rather have a ton of MM’s and Rossi’s than a bunch of boring ass riders to watch.

    Maybe there’s a reason Pedrosa has never won a championship in the elite class, He’s afraid to push it.

  42. Damo says:

    Everyone vilifying Marquez is a hypocrite, unless you vilify EVERY other racer that has taken someone out this year. People only care because it was Pedrosa, lets be real.

    Marquez made some of the lightest contact I have seen in a race and the sensor going bonkers, while unfortunate, was a total accident. You guys make it seem like Marquez went full Ninja Turtle and artfully sliced the cable, while somehow saving himself from a wreck.

    If he gets handed a horrible penalty I will disgusted.

    I hear table tennis and billiards are much safer and have substantially less contact if you guys are interested. I would suggest watching championship darts, but man, those things are sharp. Might be a bit dangerous for you.

  43. smiler says:

    I thought that this was the reason for the rookie rule. To ensure that riders new to MotoGP spent a year in a satelite team in order to adapt.
    Dorna dumped that rule especially for Marquez in order to brighten up the championship. The consequences of that are that Marquez is crashing into himself and more importantly his team mate.

    Clearly they are competitors and there are no team rules. You could blame Honda for the “design error”. But this is MotoGP, comparing how Ducati do ABS and how Honda do it is redundant because Honda are 1st & 2nd. Ducati are in 8th & 9th. What happens when the cable comes off is also mute because Pedrosa would have lost the race anyway. If companies made bikes, designed to be run into, then they would put bubble wrap over the bikes. You don’t crash your team mate off the track, into a position behind you maybe. Like Rossi did to Lorenzo.

    What if Pedrosa had broken his collarbone again?

    I think it is down to Dorna bending the rules for Spanish riders with Spanish sponsors. Marquez should have been treated as everyone else and put on a satelite bike. It would have made for a motre interesting season anyway. Marquez will also injury himself and / or another rider before the season is over.

  44. “Holy hell.. I should proof read before I hit enter….”

    Meh. Don’t worry about it. I’ve tossed out a few comments worthy of a lecture from my old English teachers lately myself. :)

  45. crshnbrn says:

    @JW +1

    Whether one is a Marquez fan or not, I don’t think anyone wants to see him get hurt even if that is what it may take for him to learn a leason. As I see it, the leason he needs to learn is patience. When Marquez bumped into Lorenzo in the last curve of the last lap at Jerez while vying for a higher step on the podium, that is an example of motorcycle racing at its finest. Neither rider went down. No harm, no fowl. But to race your own teammate so agressively barley 1/4 of the way into a race with the leader just in front of both of you is not a smart move. Marquez could have dogged Pedrosa until he made a mistake or until a cleaner passing opportunity presented itself. Marquez may have lost less ground to Lorenzo doing this than he did by going wide trying to avoid contact with Pedrosa.

  46. Joe says:

    Who is to Blame? Marc Marquez, no doubt.
    Did he manage to avoid contact? No, they contacted. Ran wide is a result not intention, Pedrosa’s rear tire forced him.

    He probability will ride less aggressive if he didn’t get any penalty point or race ban, because he already achieved his goals… hunted down Pedrosa.

    “Pedrosa has to win I do not…”, bullshit!!
    Truely, this probability the last shot for Pedrosa. However, the result is heaven and hell respectively to both of them. If Pedrosa finally won the championship, he’ll remain the No.1 rider in the Honda’s garage next year, extend 2 more years maybe? MM can’t touch the “Reigning World Champion”, especially he’s not a “ROOKIE” anymore. 3 more years No.2?? which’s not MM looking for obviously, thats why he pushed that hard to his teamate/rival to prevent that happen.

  47. Joe says:

    Who is to Blame? Marc Marquez, no doubt.
    Did he manage to avoid contact? No, they contacted. Ran wide is a result not intention, Pedrosa’s rear tire forced him.

    He probability will ride less aggressive if he didn’t get any penalty point or race ban, because he already achieved his goals… hunted down Pedrosa.

    “Pedrosa has to win I do not…”, bullshit!!
    Truely, this probability the last shot for Pedrosa. However, the result is heaven and hell respectively to both of them. If Pedrosa finally won the championship, he’ll remain the No.1 rider in the Honda’s garage next year, extend 2 more years maybe? MM can’t touch the “Reigning World Champion”, especially he’s not a “ROOKIE” anymore. 3 more years No.2?? which’s not MM looking for obviously, thats why he pushed that hard to his teammate/rival to prevent that happen.

  48. Sean says:

    Mm is a hell of a talent needed in moto gp. Sure he made a mistake but that mistake in context could have been a lot worse !! To actually make that mistake which he freely admitted to and avoid a potential disaster in that split second proves the KID has enormous talent and skill. At the speeds and forces that are in play you have to be amazed that he avoided a more disastrous outcome . It’s racing ! he is 20 years old and a rookie jumping from 150 hp to over 250 hp from steel brakes to carbon . Mistakes will happen , but u must look at all the variables before coming to decisions . Mistakes are made when pushing to the limit but are they not at the limit the whole time? He will learn in time as they all have ( pedrosa and Hayden Rossi and melandri at motegi )and to say that he knows everything about the bike and where all the senses and weak points are at that speed is an average comment . I’m sure at that moment or any other moment in a race he isn’t thinking about which part of the bike he is going to damage if he misses his braking marker . I don’t know about you but a lot of other things come to mind at that speed like missing or minimising contact or ssshhhhiiitttt! Yes he’s a little reckless he’s 20 and learning