Sunday Summary at Brno: Breaking The Streak

08/17/2014 @ 8:35 pm, by David Emmett22 COMMENTS


The hot-hand fallacy finally caught up with Marc Marquez. His amazing streak of consecutive wins stays at ten, the Spaniard being beaten for the first time this year.

In his twenty-ninth race in the MotoGP class, Marquez and his crew finally failed to find a good enough set up to win, or even make it onto the podium.

The Repsol Honda man has only missed out on the podium twice before, once at Mugello last year, when he crashed, and once at Phillip Island, when he was disqualified from the tire fiasco race.

Defeat had been waiting in the wings for Marquez for a while now. Look solely at the points table, and his dominance looks complete. But go back and look at his winning margin, and his advantage has not looked quite so large.

Of his ten wins, only two were by a considerable margin: one at Austin, where he has always been better than the rest; one at Assen, where rain created large gaps. His advantage at Argentina and Indianapolis was 1.8 seconds, at Jerez, Le Mans and the Sachsenring under a second and a half.

Marquez could only eke out victory at Qatar, Mugello and Barcelona, races he won by a half a second or less. At most races, Marquez was winning by a slender margin indeed, lapping on average just five or six hundredths of a second quicker than his rivals. It was enough, but it was really not very much at all.

Marquez’s slender advantage over his rivals was a sign of just how close they really were. Valentino Rossi, Jorge Lorenzo and Dani Pedrosa had all come close to beating Marquez, and in the case of Pedrosa at Barcelona, Marquez had been forced to delve deep into his bag of tricks to beat his teammate.

Marquez’s talent may have loaded the dice he was rolling, but eventually they would fall another way. “People said winning was easy for me,” Marquez told the Spanish media, “but I know how hard it was.”

What went wrong? All weekend long, Marquez and his crew had struggled to find rear grip in acceleration. Try as they might, they could not find a solution, during practice, during qualifying, even during the warm up. Out of sheer desperation, they tried a big change ahead of the race, but that didn’t work either.

With no grip, Marquez was losing ground out of the corner, and trying to make it up in braking. He was pushing right to the limit for as long as possible, but the risks he was taking were not sustainable.

“You can do that for three, four laps,” Marquez said, “but not for the whole race.” It was visible on TV throughout the race, Marquez repeatedly losing then saving the front in corner after corner. His assessment of why he lost was honest, and simple: “Today, we were not ready to win the race.” But he also acknowledged it was bound to happen one day. “In a championship over eighteen races, you can always have a day like this.”

Was it easier to accept losing to his teammate rather than either Lorenzo or Rossi? “I lost to all of them,” he said. If he was forced to choose, then at least it was good for the team that Pedrosa won. But really, all that mattered was that the other three had ended the race ahead of him. If there was an upside to losing the race, it meant there would be a little less pressure on him.

In press conferences and interviews, he wouldn’t face yet more questions about the record books, and how long he thought the streak would go on. Instead, he can just focus on winning races again. If anything, he will return with a new fire in his belly.

Marquez is unaccustomed to losing, and even less accustomed to not finishing on the podium. The only time he was not on the podium when he finished a race was in Mugello in 2012. Before that, it was Estoril in 2011. That is quite the streak.

That it should be Dani Pedrosa to break Marquez’ streak was both well deserved and unsurprising. The Spaniard has almost won at Barcelona, and had been viciously quick all weekend. Pedrosa’s strength slipped under the radar, as all eyes focused on Marquez. Pedrosa had a strong start, but ended up stuck behind the two Ducatis on the early laps alongside Jorge Lorenzo.

When Lorenzo pushed past Andrea Dovizioso and then Andrea Iannone, Pedrosa knew he had to follow quickly. He seized his chance as soon as it presented itself, and set about chasing down Lorenzo. It took him three laps, and was soon past. From that point on, he eked out a gap, fast enough to manage his advantage over Lorenzo.

It was only in the final stages that the Movistar Yamaha man started catching him again, but in the end, Lorenzo had left it too late to launch an attack.

Lorenzo had gambled on using the softer front tire, after setting a blistering pace on it in the morning. The cold morning temperatures saw Lorenzo string a whole host of low 1’56s together, and he felt that this was the better option for the race.

The medium front tire – the tire of choice for the rest of the grid, with the exception of Bradley Smith – was too stiff over the bumps which surround the track, the softer tire providing the grip as well as absorbing the bumps.

Under overcast skies with a cold wind cooling the track, Lorenzo got a strong start and could push hard in the early laps. Once the tire dropped off a little, and as the fuel level dropped, Lorenzo found he could not maintain the same pace.

He was forced to let Pedrosa by, unable to match the Repsol Honda man’s pace. Only in the final laps, with the tank nearing empty, did he once again find a burst of speed, but it came just a fraction too late.

Could the weather have been a factor? Possibly, Lorenzo’s team manager Wilco Zeelenberg postulated. “If they sun hadn’t come out for ten laps, maybe we would have been faster,” he said. “In the morning, when the asphalt was cold, we were much faster.”

When I asked him if this performance meant that the old Lorenzo was back, he replied it was a little more complicated than that. Yes, Lorenzo’s improved fitness had helped, but the work that Yamaha had done also needed to be taken into account.

“The total package wasn’t as good early in the season as it is now.” Now, Lorenzo had a bike he was much more comfortable on, and capable of riding to its limit. With Silverstone coming up next week – a track that suits the Yamaha even more than Brno, and where he beat Marquez in a most satisfying way – Lorenzo is going to be a threat.

Last man on the podium was a personal triumph, snatched from the jaws of defeat. Valentino Rossi had made a mistake at a crucial point in FP4, crashing out just as he was about to test an important set up change. Even worse, he had injured his little finger on his left hand, taking the skin off and creating a very painful injury.

He had tried to ride in the morning warm up without any pain killers, but that had been almost impossible. Pain-killing injections for the race had made the difference, Rossi getting stronger as the race progressed. He had been unable to match the pace of Pedrosa and Lorenzo, but he could at least shake off Marquez.

That in itself had been pleasing for Rossi. During the press conference, he was asked about Marquez’s streak coming to an end, and the credit given to Marquez for those wins. It was difficult to understand, Rossi said. When he was at Honda in 2001, 2002, 2003, people said he was winning because of the bike, the Italian said.

Then, when he went to Yamaha, it was because his rivals were weaker. Rossi could not pass up the opportunity to have a dig at his arch rival, Max Biaggi. “Sincerely, we are better rivals than I had, because more or less we never complain about the bike. In the past, especially when I beat Biaggi, he always complained it was because of the bike!”

There was also an odd moment in the press conference from Dani Pedrosa. The Spaniard was asked if the rumors that he was considering replacing his crew chief, Mike Leitner, were true. In response, Pedrosa muttered some platitudes about the importance of a good atmosphere in the team, and it still being a long way to the end of the season.

It was a very long way from being an outright denial. That will only fan the flames of the rumors, which suggest that Jorge Lorenzo is considering getting rid of Ramon Forcada, and Dani Pedrosa would want to take Forcada to replace Mike Leitner.

None of these rumors have been verified, and it would be a very strange move indeed by both men, given their long and successful histories with their respective crew chiefs. One can only speculate that Valentino Rossi’s example has raised a few question marks in their minds.

There was good news and bad over at Ducati, the good news being that once again, the gap to the front had been cut. Andrea Iannone had an excellent race, taking a very strong fifth position and finishing ahead of Andrea Dovizioso.

Afterward, Dovizioso said he had been hampered by a loss of power from his engine, and unable to use his strength in corner exit to shake off the Pramac Ducati.

Dovizioso’s loss of power is a bit of a concern, given that this was the new-spec engine which he had first started using at Indianapolis. Dovizioso was phlegmatic, however, saying it was one of the risks of doing so much development during the season. Sometimes you try something, and this was the result, he said.

It was another weekend to forget for Cal Crutchlow, the Englishman crashing out of the race. He pulled something in his shoulder after running off the track and trying to hold on to the bike. It had not prevented him from crashing, and once he returned to the track, the Ducati’s electronics lost their way after being switched on and off.

Not knowing where it was on the track, it was supplying the wrong levels of power at the wrong points in the track. It is a common problem with the Ducati, the electronics getting confused if it can’t locate itself using the timing loops under the track, and the second time this happened to Crutchlow after Qatar.

If the MotoGP race was intriguing, the Moto2 race was eminently forgettable. Tito Rabat’s victory was utterly deserved, the Spaniard riding inch-perfect to claim the win. He beat his teammate by a comfortable margin. Mika Kallio, in turn, was over three seconds ahead of Sandro Cortese, the German finally starting to show some of his promise.

Cortese explained that his problems this year had started in Qatar, where he had injured himself. He had continued to ride, despite not being fully fit, and it was only over the summer break that he had sorted himself out physically. A strong result at Indianapolis and a podium at Brno were the start of more to come, he promised.

Rabat’s victory over Kallio allowed the Spaniard to extend his championship lead to twelve points. There are still seven races to go, so the championship is far from over. It should be a close and thrilling race, yet Moto2 lacks all of the excitement it had in previous years.

Whoever wins the Moto2 title will be a worthy and well-deserved champion, of that there is no doubt. Yet they face the undeserved fate of their title soon being forgotten. It is cruel, and inexplicable, but Moto2 simply lacks any buzz this year.

The same cannot be said for Moto3. Almost always the race of the weekend, and Brno was no exception. A group of seventeen battled all the way to the end, the race decided in the final corner.

Jack Miller placed an attack at Turn 13, but Alexis Masbou defended stoutly, putting Miller wide, and dropping him down to fifth. Masbou went on to take a well-deserved first win, with Enea Bastianini finishing second.

That was quite the performance from the young Italian, who had to be carried into the press conference room on piggy back, Bastianini having fractured his heel earlier in the week.

Danny Kent made a welcome return to the podium, taking third. Having such a large group allowed Kent to take his time, the Husqvarna rider struggling with grip on new tires all season. Hanging in left him in a strong position towards the end of the race, and he capitalized on his position.

Alex Marquez finished in fourth, and ahead of Jack Miller, but Marquez’s mission had failed. He came to Brno hoping to pull back as many points as possible from Miller, but had managed to recover only two points. Miller still has a twenty three point lead over Marquez, though there are still a lot of races left in the year.

The biggest mistake of the Moto3 race was by Alex Rins, who sat up a lap too soon thinking the race had finished. The Spaniard just inched across the line ahead of Miller, then flung his arms in the air. What he didn’t realize was there was one lap left to go, and he was lucky not to be hit from behind by the other riders.

Photo: © 2014 Tony Goldsmith / TGF Photos – All Rights Reserved

This article was originally published on MotoMatters, and is republished here on Asphalt & Rubber with permission by the author.

  • Excellent write-up. Moto3’s race was memorable. MotoGP, too, due to MM finally being knocked well and truly off of the pedestal. (I mean that in a good way.) Moto2 was interesting only in watching how metronomically that Rabat could reel off lap after lap after lap to maintain the gap. Well, no, I confess to being very happy to see Cortese on the podium at long last.

    Quite a weekend of racing. I love watching MM93 ride and win, but it was just as enjoyable to see him get soundly thrashed.

  • Jimbo

    Great write up as always thanks David.

    Great racing – felt so bad for Rins! Hoping the confidence boost for Pedrosa et al. will make the rest of the season as exciting as sunday. Loved the tussle between Iannone and MM, and loved more that neither complained – just carried on and got on with things as racers should. From the silly season updates i havent seen news on Rabat getting a ride in the top class which is a shame and i think one he has earnt and deserves.

    Anything to stop Jack miller getting a ride. Doesnt win races anymore and is unfair to make the jump missing a whole class not to mention the danger to himself and other riders. Who ever had the bright idea of giving a kid who comes consitantly 5th on a 75bhp bike a 250bhp bike needs their head checked. I would hate to work at LCR next year. Miller and Crutchlow the two most miserable, arrogant riders in the paddock. Yours LCR all day long.

  • smilo998

    In Moto3, the first 7 riders from different countries and within 0.5 secs of each other in the top 7. Great racing.

    Moto 2 – bit dull but great performance from Rabat and Kallio.

    MotoGP. Pedro now has as many wins as his bike number. Rossi is up to 190 podiums. Last year Ducati were between 35 and 51 secs off the podium ast race end. Yesterday it was 17. 2 Ducati bikes started on the front row, first time since 2006. So Das Auto are beiginning to turn a corner.
    Lorenzo tried something different. Marquez didn’t and failed. He knows that because of Brno’s long corners he can’t keep the edge grip through the corner and fire it out. His rear kept breaking away…as it were.
    Until Yamahaha have seemlees up and downshift they will be behind the Honda. Marquez lost the race rather than Pedro winning. Rossi and Lorenzo picking up the podiums, so nothing has really changed.
    It was less of a prcession though. Rossi still bringing the racing on and Ianonne riding like Simoncelli.

  • Anything to stop Jack miller getting a ride. Doesnt win races anymore and is unfair to make the jump missing a whole class not to mention the danger to himself and other riders. Who ever had the bright idea of giving a kid who comes constantly 5th

    There’s just nothing about this statement with which I can find agreement. Why “anything to stop” the guy? How exactly is it unfair? Stupid, yes, but unfair? Riders get their seats on a combination of merit and sponsorship. Sometimes it’s more sponsorship than merit, but so be it in the current financial climate.

    To say that Jack “doesn’t win races anymore” is pretty obtuse, mate. He only failed to win the last two, having quite happily won in Germany. Please, don’t fall into the typical revisionist history crap. Jeeze, man.

    Were Miller to consistantly [sic] come in 5th, he wouldn’t be leading the championship by 23 points. Goodness gracious!

  • HateUK

    Amazing ride from Smith. If he keeps this up he’ll be known as the next Crutchlow in no time!

  • Jimbo

    @Trane Francks – In fairness I am happy to stand corrected on his race results, possibly letting my dislike for him cloud my judgement on actual facts which I should have been better with! I hear your point on sponsorship and of course agree. He is an Aussie and will get Aussie viewership up.

    My anti-Millerness (however fair/unfair it is – so hear me out) is three fold:
    1) The move straight from Moto3 to MotoGP and the vast change in performance that comes with it i believe is putting his life and the lives of other riders he may bump into (see Alvaro Bautista!) a danger that Dorner are being foolish in overlooking. If you read the interview that Pol Espagaro and Bradley Smith gave talking of the huge difference even from Moto2 i think it is a matter of time before someone gets hurt. Even if he spent one year in Moto2 as a stepping stone that would be better

    2)There are Moto2 riders who have paid their dues and should get a chance. Tito Rabat for example although i am not naive enough to believe the world works on fairness.

    3)I dont like him as a human being. I like sportsmen. Not whiners. I like riders who if they lose can smile (see MM on sunday/Rossi etc), I like riders who can take as much as they dish out, and people who are happy to smile, sign autographs and talk to the press. You can b#tch and say its about racing and i shouldn’t have to talk to the press but news flash you do. Thats how this world works.
    Casey Stoner (a truly brilliant motorcyclist) fought this losing battle and it cost him his career and the fans the chance to see him race. I see miller as an haughty combination of stoner and crutchlow – neither of whom helped themselves or the sport with their temper tantrums, refusal to talk to the press, and childish behaviour when they lose. Miller’s willingness to barge others out the way but complains when they do the same to him is indicative of his attitude.
    Reading this back it does sound like i have an unfair thing against him but I respect the sportsmanship as much as the riding, and i think that is the example that should be set to young fans who watch racing.

  • Amazing ride from Smith. If he keeps this up he’ll be known as the next Crutchlow in no time!

    Hey! It’s smiler’s brother!

    Smith’s data indicated that he was losing anywhere from .75-1 second per lap due to wheel spin. You maybe want to verify your convictions before throwing the noose over the head. Just sayin’.

  • @Jimbo:

    Once again, I find myself mostly disagreeing with you.

    1) Firstly, the move from Moto3 to MotoGP is NOT inherently dangerous. History has no shortage of riders who stepped up from 125 to 500 or MotoGP. Garry McCoy is probably the most successful example, having spanned a total of 14 seasons between 125, 500 and MotoGP. I think Lucas Pesek was probably the last guy to feature in MotoGP from 125. It’s _NOT_ outright dangerous. If the guy is a good rider, the step is a big one but not out of the realm of plausibility.

    2) Paid their dues? Cry me a river, man. Life isn’t fair.

    3) “I dont like him as a human being. I like sportsmen. Not whiners.” For some reason, I get the feeling you haven’t really paid any attention to his racing and subsequent commentary whatsoever. I could be wrong, of course, but Miller is one who likes his racing really hard and fair. He does not whine, which is one if the big reasons why he’s so high on the radar. Sure, he moans when back markers screw things up (as do most), but when it comes to a fair fight, Miller is right in there with a smile and a wink.

    And, besides, you seriously don’t get a giggle out of his post-win theatrics? It’s classic Rossi atop a bed of Vegemite~!

    Sometimes, I think people watch entirely different racing series than I do. :)

  • Disclaimer: I’m a Jack Miller fan. I became one the first time I heard him take the absolute piss out of Ian Wheeler during a MotoGP grid interview. The guy is pure gold: An excellent racer who just happens to have one wicked sense of humour. He’s LOVED in the paddock for those very reasons.

  • Westward

    I agree with Jimbo. At least with that last point. I was over the moon when Stoner won the title for Ducati in 2007, but it’s been all downhill since for me when it came to him. His attitude was just spoiled.

    As for Miller, I think the jump to the premiere class is a huge mistake in the guys development as a racer. He is going to end up a bust like John Hopkins. He is going to struggle to get up to speed, and then while he is utterly confused, or thinks he has it down, he is going to have a rude awakening when the Michelin tyres become a factor. He may never recover, cause by then he will be worst off than Bradley Smith, and Bradley at least has a clue.

    Maverick is in a similar boat but at least he will have a season of Moto2 under his belt, not to mention that he is also racing at the front. Julian Simon, Nico Terol, and Sandro Cortese all are 125/Moto3 Champions that are not fairing well in Moto2, and Miller is pig headed enough to think he will somehow compete on a bike that is not meant to win.

    Rins was smart enough to realize that he needs to cut his chops in Moto2, and turned down overtures to jump to the big leagues. Miller will washout if he is lucky, die or even worst kill someone else too.

    Besides Dorna is trying too hard to find a replacement for Stoner to appease the Aussie tele market. They are also bending rules to let this new french kid Quartararo jump to Moto3, and like Miller he is leading the Spanish CEV Moto3 and has not even won the title yet.

  • L2C


    Marquez lost the race rather than Pedro winning.

    And I suppose last week at Indy, Pedrosa lost the race because of his bike issues rather than Marquez winning? How about Pedrosa’s first six races of the season, when he was under team orders? He also lost those races rather than Marquez winning? Marquez only *won* three races this year? By your logic, with the exception of Assen 2013, Rossi has been losing since before he went to Ducati rather than Lorenzo, Marquez, Pedrosa, and Stoner winning. More bullsh-t from you, as per usual, smiler.

    08/17/2014 @ 8:35 pm, by David Emmett

    There was also an odd moment in the press conference from Dani Pedrosa. The Spaniard was asked if the rumors that he was considering replacing his crew chief, Mike Leitner, were true.

    That’s interesting, to me. Since the beginning of the season, it’s been clear that something within Pedrosa’s team has been getting in the way of his performance. And how much Mike Leitner had to do with implementing HRC’s demands (team orders) into Pedrosa’s strategy, for at least the first six races, is also a question.

    If Leitner has been playing both sides of the fence, rather than having a spine and fighting tooth and nail for his rider, then Pedrosa should absolutely get rid of him. That kind crap didn’t happen when Puig was in that garage. In every garage, every rider needs someone fighting–and winning–on their behalf.

    So if there is truth to those rumors, now is the perfect time to find a new crew chief because the importance of the 2015 season is well and truly off the scale. It’s the transition to the new everything and the end of the old everything. Can’t have a crew chief that is less than committed in that circumstance, never mind having one like that in any circumstance.

  • L2C

    (I absolutely hate it when I post the wrong draft. Edit button, please?)

  • Westward

    Here is another thing to put it into perspective. Rins, last season lost the Mot03 title to Maverick by just 12 points while scoring 311 total. Rins won six times, placed second five times, and placed third three times. He crashed out twice, and missed the podium once. Without those two DNF’s he would have been the champion.

    Vinales who won, scored only three victories, placed second eight times and finished third four times. He missed the podium twice, but finished, enough to be 12 points up on Rins. Rins is 5th this year in Moto3. Luis Salom that same season won seven times. Currently Salom is 8th in Moto2, not a chance at winning the title.

    Miller is hardly dominating Moto3 now, he could still lose the title. He also does not strike me as a unique talent like Stoner, Marquez, or Rossi…

    Personally I think Dorna is more likely sabotaging the Aussies chance at having a champion in Moto2 and the premiere class by rushing Miller before he is ready. Same could be said for the kid Quartararo and the french. If one were conspiratorial in thought, it would be an interesting way to help secure Spanish dominance in the series.

  • L2C

    When you have a journalist like David Emmett who says:

    If the MotoGP race was intriguing, the Moto2 race was eminently forgettable.


    Whoever wins the Moto2 title will be a worthy and well-deserved champion, of that there is no doubt. Yet they face the undeserved fate of their title soon being forgotten. It is cruel, and inexplicable, but Moto2 simply lacks any buzz this year.

    Then Dorna are likely sabotaging Moto2’s future by prematurely rushing through riders from Moto3 to MotoGP. Right now in Moto2, there are plenty of standout talents, but none are glamorous enough to catch the media’s attention. Moto2 is rich in talent, but short on gloss. That’s the main problem.

    The racing can be processional in the series and still be enjoyable if the personalities involved lit up on a regular basis. No media darlings mean no excitement. But I personally think that’s also Dorna’s fault.

    Rabat, Kallio, Aegerter. Each of these riders were constantly looked over in the past. Each never given proper exposure or the exposure they deserve. The result is that they have settled into their roles of not being the ones who are supposed to court the limelight. And frankly, I think it’s okay to want to avoid the glare, but to not have any PR draw whatsoever is damaging not only their careers, but also to the class.

    Dorna with it’s constant emphasis on the next great Stoner or Rossi or Simoncelli or whoever-great-rider-from-the-past is responsible for Moto2 being pervceived as the class that’s least exciting.

    Maverick Vinales. Vinales is working on escaping Moto2 as soon as possible because he sees the writing on the wall. He’s trading on the fire and mercurial behavior that he displayed during his two years in Moto3! This season, his personality has been so subdued, it’s hardly any different to either Rabat’s or the other two riders. Is this an affliction of “When in Rome?” Not only that, but he has received hardly any press coverage to speak of despite having a lock on Rookie of the Year.

    Moto2 is in crisis, no doubt about it. And it’s all Dorna’s fault for putting the show before the talent, when the talent should be put front and center of the show.

  • H.L.

    Personally, it is now in defeat that I can give perspective and respect to MM’s win streak and podium streak.

    Kudos to JL for having the confidence in himself to choose a front tire that no one else on factory chose and making the soft front work well enough to beat MM and VR despite the change in temps.

    Congrats to DP, long overdue. Do whatever you have to do…fire the crew chief, study film on MM etc..You should be giving MM hell in every race on that second factory Honda. Just some more controlled aggression type riding please.

    Iannone is growing on me. Turning the corner as a rider for sure.

    I believe MM is as humble as can be considering his talents but the look of HUMBLE PIE on his pit crew as he rolled into the paddock was priceless.

    Watching Rossi pull away from MM on the straight was quite surreal.

  • Frank

    @ L2C – Hell of a race for ol Pedro huh?! It was great to see him win Sunday. He was unbeatable in that race. I liked that he got right after it when he saw Lorenzo starting to pull a gap and passed him with conviction. Made it look rather easy. For all those fools asking why HRC would re-sign Pedrosa… THAT is why. Marc didn’t have it on Sunday but HRC still gets 25 points in the constructor’s championship. Done and done.

    As for Marc – still smiling in his post-race interview. It was clear he was on the limit, sliding all over the place. When Rossi caught him he nearly crashed trying to race defensively and then after the pass while trying to follow him. What I liked about his demeanor after finishing off the podium was that he gave credit to his competitors. He said he just wasn’t as fast as they were. No pointing blame at the tires or at his set up. Class act.

    ‘I believe MM is as humble as can be considering his talents but the look of HUMBLE PIE on his pit crew as he rolled into the paddock was priceless.’

    @H.L. – For sure. There was the immediate ‘debrief’ with the entire crew and once it was over, it was humble Marc. I bet that even if there was a set up issue, Marc would just concede he was beaten. Smart man. No use in dwelling on what ifs. We may here more questions in the next pre-race press conference regarding the issues but in the end – they will resolve it and move forward.

    And many have mentioned that Iannone is gaining fans with every race. I am on that wagon. I liked watching him in Moto2 and he is always very straightforward in his interviews (maybe a language thing for him). But he seems like a good dude with a decent sense of humor that is absolutely riding the wheels off that Pramac Duc. I hope that he can continue to post solid results because he could be a podium contender on a good bike.

  • smilo998

    L2C says:
    August 18, 2014 at 3:16 AM

    Marquez lost the race rather than Pedro winning.

    Can you try not to be silly L2C and at least try to look at some facts. It might help your illogical rants.
    At Brno, Marquez was fastest in first practice and also took pole. Pedrosa was in 5th on the grid. So clearly Marquez was quickest. This has been the case throughout the season so far. Marquez has qualified 1st in each race this year except 2. At Catalunya Pedros qualified 1st. What happened during that race?

    If you look at the slow mo of him exiting the long corners at Brno you can clearly see his bike losing grip on the exit. The corners are Brno are consistently longer than other tracks thus far. You cannnot back the bike in and fire it out as Marquez likes to. You would know that if you had ever ridden at Brno or perhaps ever ridden. So you could say it was his engineers that lost him the race, that was implicit in my initial response.

    Given the surprise reaction and the immediate debrief in which you could see Marquez doing the classic losing the rear gesture, if he had not had that issue then logically he would have won the race. There is no reason to have expected a different result.
    There is a difference between one rider losing a race and another winning one. Apparently you cannot tell the difference.
    Now referring to the rest of your rant.
    At Indy. Pedrosa did not lose the race because he has not been on a par with Marquez since the second 2/3rds of the previous season. At Indy, Marquez out qualified his team mate in each practice and in the qualifying, usually by several places, as has been the case all season. Seeing as they are using the same bike then what you are suggesting is not logical. Can you understand the difference?

    Pedros is under team orders? Are you trying to be sarcastic or do you know something the rest of us do not. Pedrosa has failed since 2006 to outperform each and every team mate.

    No your complete lack of logic says that Rossi had been losing before and during his time at Ducati. The question is, if Rossi was on a Honda or Yamaha during this period would he have been in a position to win. The answer is clearly yes. So Ducati and his crew chief put him in a position where he could not win. So with Rossi on an uncompetitive bike, the others are in a position to win. Like MM and Pedrosa this weekend. Can you follow that?
    In 2009 with the same bike Rossi won against Lorenzo. In 2010 rhe reverse. Understand?

    So perhaps what I said, as concurred by the former riders and the commentary team as well make sense and your comments do not.


  • tony

    “In the morning, when the asphalt was cold, we were much faster.”

    absolutely fascinating. all my years, all my rides, trackdays, etc, never heard anyone say that. we all have so much to learn…

  • L2C

    August 18, 2014 at 1:28 AM, smilo998 says:

    Marquez lost the race rather than Pedro winning.

    First off, you said that dumb sh-t, not me. Check your first post, which is the third in this thread, beanhead.

    Second, try this fact on for size: Dani Pedrosa won the 2014 bwin Grand Prix České republiky. Every other rider in the MotoGP class lost.

    Accept it and move on. Or stay stuck and keep on mucking up the conversation with your raggedy reasoning.

    August 18, 2014 at 12:21 PM, smilo998 says:

    At Indy. Pedrosa did not lose the race because he has not been on a par with Marquez since the second 2/3rds of the previous season. At Indy, Marquez out qualified his team mate in each practice and in the qualifying, usually by several places, as has been the case all season. Seeing as they are using the same bike then what you are suggesting is not logical. Can you understand the difference?

    I’ll tell you what I understand. I understand that a you are trying to make sense of something in a way well beyond your bearing.

    Pedrosa suffered grip issues all weekend long at Indianapolis, a circuit that he has won twice. If grip issues can be applied to your reasoning of Marquez losing Brno, then grip issues can also be applied to reasons why Pedrosa lost Indy. Grip issues are grip issues and if grip issues don’t matter for Pedrosa, grip issues don’t matter for Marquez.

    Also, the races that happened previous to Brno are separate matters. But according to you, since Marquez won all races previous to Brno when he qualified higher than Pedrosa, and won all races previous to Brno when he qualified worse than Pedrosa, Marquez will win all future races regardless of how well Pedrosa qualfies. Except Brno doesn’t count because Marquez lost and had grip issues with his RC213V, the same model bike that Pedrosa lost Indy on, but won Brno with, and for whom grip issues don’t count for anything when he wins or loses, but counts for something when Marquez loses but not for Pedrosa when Marquez wins.

    Not only is that spaghetti illogical and fallacious to the extreme, it is the standout feature of your entire noodly block of thoroughly unsound and wretched screed!

    August 18, 2014 at 12:21 PM, smilo998 says:

    No your complete lack of logic says that Rossi had been losing before and during his time at Ducati. The question is, if Rossi was on a Honda or Yamaha during this period would he have been in a position to win. The answer is clearly yes.

    Rossi lost races on with Yamaha on the M1 before defecting to Ducati, and Rossi lost every race he entered with Ducati on the Desmosedici. Those are historical facts. End of discussion on that point.

    And the answer to your hypothetical questions is that the answers are unknown. Period.

    The other thing is that you have asked your hypothetical questions in hindsight. At the time Rossi ditched the M1 and Yamaha for the Desmo and Ducati, everyone including Rossi thought that he could win on anything. Rossi himself thought that he could outperform Casey Stoner on the Desmo, yet he most certainly did not even come close to even matching Stoner’s performance on that bike.

    So what makes you think Rossi would have been in a position to win on the Honda? Rossi wasn’t as good on the Desmo as Stoner, why would he necessarilly have been as good on the Honda as Stoner? Stoner was in a position to win on the Desmo and the Honda because Stoner is Stoner. Rossi was not in a position to win on the Desmo, and Rossi riding the Honda at that time was not even a possibility. Considering all of this, it is unknown whether Rossi would have been in a position to win on the Honda.

    You might believe that Rossi would have been in a position to win on the Honda, but you cannot state for a fact that he would have been in a position to win on the Honda. If you do, you have to support your claim. And you didn’t support it the first time.

    Anyway, Rossi thought that he could no longer win on the M1 with Lorenzo on the other side of the garage, otherwise he wouldn’t have left Yamaha in the first place. Did you remember all of the relevant facts before you began scribbling away?

    About Pedrosa being under team orders (emphasis is mine):

    06/15/2014 @ 10:30 pm, by David Emmett

    Pedrosa was delighted that his arm was now strong enough to fight all the way to the end, as well as with the changes made to the bike. The Spaniard had suffered in the early races with a change in strategy forced upon him by the team, which had shifted focus from the start of the races to make the bike better in the second half of the race.

  • crshnbrn

    @ smilo998, aka smiler?

    re: “Marquez lost the race rather than Pedro winning.”

    Many speculated that Marquez’s streak would come to and end at either Brno or Silverstone where track layouts either favor the Yamahas or at least don’t favor the Hondas. Marquez was bested at Brno by both Yamahas which were both bested by Pedrosa on a Honda. Pedrosa won the race every bit as much if not more than Marquez lost it.
    I do have one question for you though. Do you wear corrective lenses? Regardless, you may want to have your prescription checked.

  • Jw

    Dani won the race, OK?

  • HateUK

    I have never cheered as loudly in my life as when watching that Moto2 race. Highlight of the season.