<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0" xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/" xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/" > <channel><title>Comments on: Electric Teams Just Want to Race Against the Best</title> <atom:link href="http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/electric-teams-race/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/electric-teams-race/</link> <description></description> <lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 13:40:23 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3</generator> <item><title>By: David Herron</title><link>http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/electric-teams-race/#comment-3308</link> <dc:creator>David Herron</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 02:27:01 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/?p=8627#comment-3308</guid> <description>@Jensen, perhaps my background in the software industry is doing me a disservice.  I just read Mark Gardiner&#039;s reports on this published on roadracerx.com and he quotes Crellin discussing the rules TT Zero would be using as an amalgam of rules picked from TTXGP 2009, IET/ACU and FIM&#039;s e-Power.  Clearly from IOMTT&#039;s point of view it&#039;s perfectly reasonable to pick up rules from wherever they wish to find them.In the software industry this sort of behavior is a big no-no.  A particular issue is copyright and for example whether two works have compatible copyrights.  But the strongest analogy here is the various standards to computer equipment and software.  The race rules do define the specs of acceptable bikes in the same way that standards documents define the acceptable behavior of software of hardware.   Standards like this are the basis of multi-billion-dollar industries and often the subject of lawsuits.Crellin&#039;s attitude as related by Gardiner is very shocking.  The equivalent in the software world would be for a company like Microsoft to take code from some other company and just put it in Windows without any acknowledgement or license agreement.  Microsoft has done this several times and been successfully sued for doing so.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jensen, perhaps my background in the software industry is doing me a disservice.  I just read Mark Gardiner&#8217;s reports on this published on roadracerx.com and he quotes Crellin discussing the rules TT Zero would be using as an amalgam of rules picked from TTXGP 2009, IET/ACU and FIM&#8217;s e-Power.  Clearly from IOMTT&#8217;s point of view it&#8217;s perfectly reasonable to pick up rules from wherever they wish to find them.</p><p>In the software industry this sort of behavior is a big no-no.  A particular issue is copyright and for example whether two works have compatible copyrights.  But the strongest analogy here is the various standards to computer equipment and software.  The race rules do define the specs of acceptable bikes in the same way that standards documents define the acceptable behavior of software of hardware.   Standards like this are the basis of multi-billion-dollar industries and often the subject of lawsuits.</p><p>Crellin&#8217;s attitude as related by Gardiner is very shocking.  The equivalent in the software world would be for a company like Microsoft to take code from some other company and just put it in Windows without any acknowledgement or license agreement.  Microsoft has done this several times and been successfully sued for doing so.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Jensen Beeler</title><link>http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/electric-teams-race/#comment-3307</link> <dc:creator>Jensen Beeler</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 01:28:02 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/?p=8627#comment-3307</guid> <description>@DaivdYou&#039;re basing your argument on the attachment of copyright protection at the time a creative work is produced. Yes, that is a correct understanding of when copyright law attaches. No, it is not the proper analysis for this situation.Do me a favor and quote me fully next time. I said, &quot;There’s no IP in racing rules…at least not legally.&quot; I&#039;m here to argue about authorship or moral rights and wrongs. I&#039;m speaking about recourse in a court of law.Just because you write something down, doesn&#039;t make it a copyright, even it requires &quot;intellect&quot; as you put it. Do me another favor, work out by hand the first 10 digits of Pi, and write them down. Do you proclaim to have a copyright on that work you just created? Calculating Pi isn&#039;t easy, and takes a great degree of intellect.The best argument for there being IP protection in racing rules would be under a sui generis theory of law. You&#039;re not arguing that here, nonetheless there&#039;s no case law to suggest that sort of protection exists in this matter.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Daivd</p><p>You&#8217;re basing your argument on the attachment of copyright protection at the time a creative work is produced. Yes, that is a correct understanding of when copyright law attaches. No, it is not the proper analysis for this situation.</p><p>Do me a favor and quote me fully next time. I said, &#8220;There’s no IP in racing rules…at least not legally.&#8221; I&#8217;m here to argue about authorship or moral rights and wrongs. I&#8217;m speaking about recourse in a court of law.</p><p>Just because you write something down, doesn&#8217;t make it a copyright, even it requires &#8220;intellect&#8221; as you put it. Do me another favor, work out by hand the first 10 digits of Pi, and write them down. Do you proclaim to have a copyright on that work you just created? Calculating Pi isn&#8217;t easy, and takes a great degree of intellect.</p><p>The best argument for there being IP protection in racing rules would be under a sui generis theory of law. You&#8217;re not arguing that here, nonetheless there&#8217;s no case law to suggest that sort of protection exists in this matter.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: David Herron</title><link>http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/electric-teams-race/#comment-3306</link> <dc:creator>David Herron</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 01:07:35 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/?p=8627#comment-3306</guid> <description>@Jensen, huh?  I have been dealing with copyright law for years in particular in regard to software copyrights on open source software.  I am certainly very comfortable with the issues around copyrights.  On the other hand your claim that there&#039;s &quot;There’s no IP in racing rules&quot; struck me as extremely odd.  I haven&#039;t looked at what copyright FIM puts on their rules documents but I am very  well aware of Berne Convention and other kinds of automatic copyrights.In other fields standards documents are often heavily protected behind copyright and other legal agreements.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jensen, huh?  I have been dealing with copyright law for years in particular in regard to software copyrights on open source software.  I am certainly very comfortable with the issues around copyrights.  On the other hand your claim that there&#8217;s &#8220;There’s no IP in racing rules&#8221; struck me as extremely odd.  I haven&#8217;t looked at what copyright FIM puts on their rules documents but I am very  well aware of Berne Convention and other kinds of automatic copyrights.</p><p>In other fields standards documents are often heavily protected behind copyright and other legal agreements.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Jensen Beeler</title><link>http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/electric-teams-race/#comment-3305</link> <dc:creator>Jensen Beeler</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 00:23:13 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/?p=8627#comment-3305</guid> <description>@DavidYour analysis only shows your complete lack of understanding for what copyright law is, and how it operates. Check my credentials, I&#039;d be more than happy to let you borrow a copyright law text or two.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@David</p><p>Your analysis only shows your complete lack of understanding for what copyright law is, and how it operates. Check my credentials, I&#8217;d be more than happy to let you borrow a copyright law text or two.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: David Herron</title><link>http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/electric-teams-race/#comment-3304</link> <dc:creator>David Herron</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 00:05:06 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/?p=8627#comment-3304</guid> <description>@Jensen .. maybe you have little understanding what &quot;Intellectual property&quot; means?  There&#039;s a lot of intellect and research and development that goes into developing something like a document on racing rules.  It&#039;s not something you hack out in an afternoon.  Any time someone writes something there is an opportunity to put a copyright notice on it, and hence turn it into &quot;property&quot;.  So technically there is both intellect and property associated with a set of racing rules.  I do understand that FIM rules are published in a way that they&#039;re widely used even outside FIM sanctioned races.  For example the TT races, I understand, are run using FIM rules but not sanctioned by FIM.  To do that FIM must be publishing under a copyright that allows for such use.  As for who wrote the TTXGP rules - I think the TTXGP team has made it very clear that they put a lot of work into it.  Certainly when I talk with Azhar that&#039;s the story I get.  It&#039;s been very clear that for example they arranged with the IET to act as a technical advisory board, and that the IET did a lot of the work to define the rules.  And remember that prior to the TTXGP coming onto the scene FIM&#039;s idea of &quot;clean&quot; motorcycle racing was to research biofuels (look at past issues of the FIM newsletter for their clean motorcycle racing effort).  Hence FIM had approximately zero expertise in electric anything.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jensen .. maybe you have little understanding what &#8220;Intellectual property&#8221; means?  There&#8217;s a lot of intellect and research and development that goes into developing something like a document on racing rules.  It&#8217;s not something you hack out in an afternoon.  Any time someone writes something there is an opportunity to put a copyright notice on it, and hence turn it into &#8220;property&#8221;.  So technically there is both intellect and property associated with a set of racing rules.  I do understand that FIM rules are published in a way that they&#8217;re widely used even outside FIM sanctioned races.  For example the TT races, I understand, are run using FIM rules but not sanctioned by FIM.  To do that FIM must be publishing under a copyright that allows for such use.  As for who wrote the TTXGP rules &#8211; I think the TTXGP team has made it very clear that they put a lot of work into it.  Certainly when I talk with Azhar that&#8217;s the story I get.  It&#8217;s been very clear that for example they arranged with the IET to act as a technical advisory board, and that the IET did a lot of the work to define the rules.  And remember that prior to the TTXGP coming onto the scene FIM&#8217;s idea of &#8220;clean&#8221; motorcycle racing was to research biofuels (look at past issues of the FIM newsletter for their clean motorcycle racing effort).  Hence FIM had approximately zero expertise in electric anything.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Ian W</title><link>http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/electric-teams-race/#comment-3204</link> <dc:creator>Ian W</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:54:38 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/?p=8627#comment-3204</guid> <description>Appears Motoczysz have stuck their heads above the parapet...http://plugbike.com/2010/02/19/motoczysz-supports-tt-zero-and-will-return-to-iom-for-2010/</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Appears Motoczysz have stuck their heads above the parapet&#8230;</p><p><a href="http://plugbike.com/2010/02/19/motoczysz-supports-tt-zero-and-will-return-to-iom-for-2010/" rel="nofollow">http://plugbike.com/2010/02/19/motoczysz-supports-tt-zero-and-will-return-to-iom-for-2010/</a></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Jensen Beeler</title><link>http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/electric-teams-race/#comment-3181</link> <dc:creator>Jensen Beeler</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:32:33 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/?p=8627#comment-3181</guid> <description>@skadamo It&#039;s certainly a debate that has no clear answer (TT Zero vs. Albacete), and the two aren&#039;t mutually exclusive (except for the lost points from not racing at Road America).I think the fact that companies like Mission Motors are even pondering what TTXGP not being at IOM means for them shows the importance the importance IOMTT plays in their mind...and they&#039;re the ones whose opinion really matters.If everyone shows up at TT Zero and not at Albacete, which event are you going to give more prestige to in your mind?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@skadamo<br /> It&#8217;s certainly a debate that has no clear answer (TT Zero vs. Albacete), and the two aren&#8217;t mutually exclusive (except for the lost points from not racing at Road America).</p><p>I think the fact that companies like Mission Motors are even pondering what TTXGP not being at IOM means for them shows the importance the importance IOMTT plays in their mind&#8230;and they&#8217;re the ones whose opinion really matters.</p><p>If everyone shows up at TT Zero and not at Albacete, which event are you going to give more prestige to in your mind?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: skadamo</title><link>http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/electric-teams-race/#comment-3178</link> <dc:creator>skadamo</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:21:38 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/?p=8627#comment-3178</guid> <description>@Jensen Good point on the cost of running TTXGP Series vs IOM. Would love to see a breakdown of IOM vs. TTXGP series.On the bright side I think TTXGP will provide more visibility to sponsors. Maybe Azhar could help these teams find some sponsors? I hear there is a lot of money in this Green tech stuff. :)I still think winning the TTXGP series would be better. There would be a lot of learning and technology advances in 5 rounds of racing versus 1 lap at IOM.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jensen Good point on the cost of running TTXGP Series vs IOM. Would love to see a breakdown of IOM vs. TTXGP series.</p><p>On the bright side I think TTXGP will provide more visibility to sponsors. Maybe Azhar could help these teams find some sponsors? I hear there is a lot of money in this Green tech stuff. :)</p><p>I still think winning the TTXGP series would be better. There would be a lot of learning and technology advances in 5 rounds of racing versus 1 lap at IOM.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: IvarK</title><link>http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/electric-teams-race/#comment-3175</link> <dc:creator>IvarK</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:22:40 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/?p=8627#comment-3175</guid> <description>@Jensen I guess I&#039;m one of the sites that covers this space. I&#039;ve spent more time talking to Azhar and FIM than I&#039;ve done on any other story. Noone has asked me to retract anything. Being asked for favours is a good thing. It means someone thinks you&#039;ve got influence. It doesn&#039;t mean you have to say yes.With regards to the article: Of course they are &quot;uninterested in the politics&quot; and  &quot;just want to race against the best&quot;, but it&#039;s naive to think it&#039;s possible. As the situation is, choosing where to race is politics.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jensen<br /> I guess I&#8217;m one of the sites that covers this space. I&#8217;ve spent more time talking to Azhar and FIM than I&#8217;ve done on any other story. Noone has asked me to retract anything. Being asked for favours is a good thing. It means someone thinks you&#8217;ve got influence. It doesn&#8217;t mean you have to say yes.</p><p>With regards to the article: Of course they are &#8220;uninterested in the politics&#8221; and  &#8220;just want to race against the best&#8221;, but it&#8217;s naive to think it&#8217;s possible. As the situation is, choosing where to race is politics.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: e Superbikes</title><link>http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/electric-teams-race/#comment-4389</link> <dc:creator>e Superbikes</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:18:15 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/?p=8627#comment-4389</guid> <description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;RT@Asphalt_Rubber:Electric Teams Just Want to Race with the Best - http://bit.ly/a3728j&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">RT@Asphalt_Rubber:Electric Teams Just Want to Race with the Best &#8211; <a href="http://bit.ly/a3728j" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/a3728j</a></span></span></span></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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