Redux: AMA Superbike vs. World Superbike at MMP

05/28/2012 @ 10:14 am, by Jensen Beeler17 COMMENTS

Redux: AMA Superbike vs. World Superbike at MMP Jake Holden WSBK Miller Motorsports Park 635x423

Last year we combined the QP2 times from World Superbike with the Qualifying times from AMA Superbike, to see how America’s finest motorcycle racers stack up on against the international championship of a similar name. Of course there are different regulations in each series (not to mention a variety of other factors), which vary a bit on how teams are allowed to modify their race bikes, so there isn’t an exact comparison between the two series, but it makes for something interesting to mull over with your morning coffee, and the results this year may surprise you.

Before we dive into it, there are some notes on the table below, namely the use of WSBK’s QP2 times instead of those from Superpole. The biggest reasons for this is because the two sessions were on the same day, and roughly during the same time period, which with Miller’s variable weather this year was important to give a more accurate representation of things (we used the same sessions in last year’s article as well).

Looking at the results from last year, what is immediately obvious is that World Superbike is actually lapping a fraction slower than last year’s pace at the American round (a couple tenths of a second difference). Meanwhile, the pace in AMA Superbike is notably faster, which is evident by the number of AMA riders mixed in with the WSBK competitors. This contrasts nicely to last year’s results where, sans a few outliers, the mixed times could easily be drawn into two groups, on a purely series-related basis.

Once again, Josh Hayes is the fastest AMA rider in our analysis, but this time Josh slots in 12th with the WSBK pack, whereas last year he was 19th. Also showing the heightened pace in AMA Superbike, Blake Young makes a modest step up, but the inclusion of riders like Geoff May, Danny Eslick, and Roger Lee Hayden in the higher spots of the mixed grid show that its not just one or two riders stepping up the pace, but the AMA’s top teams overall.

With a couple AMA regulars wildcarding in the WSBK race (Jake Holden & Shane Turpin), some calibration can be made on our understanding of the differences between racing in the AMA and racing in World Superbike. We will let you argue that in the comments, but of note, only four of the AMA Superbike riders would have been cut by the FIM’s 107% qualification rule, meaning all the riders here are pretty damn fast.

Combined Results from AMA Superbike’s Qualifying Session and World Superbike’s Qualifying Practice 2 – Sunday May 27th, 2012

Pos.RiderTeamBikeTimeDiff.
1Jakub SmrzLiberty Racing Team EffenbertDucati 1098R1’48.517-
2Carlos ChecaAlthea RacingDucati 1098R1’48.7890.272
3Marco MelandriBMW Motorrad MotorsportBMW S1000 RR1’49.0090.492
4Sylvain GuintoliTeam Effenbert Liberty RacingDucati 1098R1’49.0790.562
5Eugene LavertyAprilia Racing TeamAprilia RSV4 Factory1’49.1750.658
6Jonathan ReaHonda World Superbike TeamHonda CBR1000RR1’49.2430.726
7John HopkinsFIXI Crescent SuzukiSuzuki GSX-R10001’49.5311.014
8Max BiaggiAprilia Racing TeamAprilia RSV4 Factory1’49.5841.067
9Leon HaslamBMW Motorrad MotorsportBMW S1000 RR1’49.6341.117
10Tom SykesKawasaki Racing TeamKawasaki ZX-10R1’49.6361.119
11Michel FabrizioBMW Motorrad Italia GoldBetBMW S1000 RR1’49.6541.137
12Josh HayesMonster Energy Graves YamahaYamaha R11’49.7291.212
13Chaz DaviesParkinGO MTC RacingAprilia RSV4 Factory1’49.9681.451
14Maxime BergerTeam Effenbert Liberty RacingDucati 1098R1’49.9801.463
15Lorenzo ZanettiPATA Racing TeamDucati 1098R1’50.0141.497
16Niccoló CanepaRed Devils RomaDucati 1098R1’50.0311.514
17Blake YoungYoshimura RacingSuzuki GSX-R10001’50.1411.624
18Geoff MayTeam Amsoil/HeroEBR 1190RS1’50.2191.702
19Davide GiuglianoAlthea RacingDucati 1098R1’50.2801.763
20Danny EslickTeam HeroEBR 1190RS1’50.3551.838
21Roger HaydenNational Guard Jordan SuzukiSuzuki GSX-R10001’50.3581.841
22Loris BazKawasaki Racing TeamKawasaki ZX-10R1’50.4241.907
23Ayrton BadoviniBMW Motorrad Italia GoldBetBMW S1000 RR1’50.4271.910
24David SalomTeam PederciniKawasaki ZX-10R1’50.5041.987
25Ben BostromJordan SuzukiSuzuki GSX-R10001’50.5111.994
26Leon CamierFIXI Crescent SuzukiSuzuki GSX-R10001’50.5202.003
27Josh HerrinMonster Energy Graves YamahaYamaha R11’50.6762.159
28Hiroshi AoyamaHonda World Superbike TeamHonda CBR1000RR1’50.9632.446
29Chris ClarkYoshimura RacingSuzuki GSX-R10001’51.1772.660
30Larry PegramForemost Insurance/Pegram RacingBMW S1000RR1’51.5473.030
31Steve RappAttack PerformanceKawasaki ZX-101’51.7963.279
32Leandro MercadoTeam PederciniKawasaki ZX-10R1’51.8433.326
33David AnthonyKneedraggers.comSuzuki GSX-R10001’51.9963.479
34Jake HoldenGrillini Progea Superbike TeamBMW S1000 RR1’52.1083.591
35Robertino PietriTeam VenezuelaSuzuki GSX-R10001’52.2903.773
36Taylor KnappEvanSteelPerformance.com BMWBMW S1000RR1’52.5654.048
37Chris FillmoreKTM/HMC RacingKTM RC8R1’52.5874.070
38Chris UlrichM4 Lucas Oil SuzukiSuzuki GSX-R10001’53.3974.880
39Shane TurpinBoulder Motor SportsDucati 1098R1’54.3995.882
40Jordan BurgessKneedraggers.comSuzuki GSX-R10001’55.1746.657
World Superbike 107% Qualifying Cut Off
41Reno KarimianTeam AirKawasaki ZX-101’56.7438.226
42Trent GibsonSeven SportsSuzuki GSX-R10001’57.1168.599
43Chris SiglinFastLine…BMW S1000RR1’57.4218.904
44Tony PorterEDRKawasaki ZX-102’00.37211.855

Source: AMA Pro Racing & WSBK; Photo: © 2012 Rick Grayston – All Rights Reserved

Comment:

  1. Aaron Mezger says:

    Oh, how I miss the days when the WSBK regulars dreaded the US rounds because they knew they weren’t going to get full points. Watching Chandler, Mladin, Duhamel, the Bostroms et al flat school everybody was a proud time.

  2. Sloan says:

    Aren’t the WSBK machines modified and upgraded more than the AMA machines? I seem to remember seeing a comparison of Ben Spies’s AMA ride and later WSBK machine and the upgrades and mods to the WSBK didn’t leave much of the original motorcycle there other than block and frame whereas the AMA was really just more like added high-end parts.

  3. 2ndclass says:

    Wow, great to see the Buell’s that far up!

  4. Aaron Mezger says:

    @Sloan- if memory serves, it used to be somewhat the opposite. AMA teams had to put together special bikes than ran a slightly lower spec than the WSBK bikes. There was a time when AMA bikes were getting pretty nutso with skunk works type development. DMG effectively put an end to that in an effort to level the playing field.

  5. Very interesting comparison between the AMA and WSBK times at Miller from @Asphalt_Rubber http://t.co/zJvd7gf5

  6. Very interesting comparison between the AMA and WSBK times at Miller from @Asphalt_Rubber http://t.co/zJvd7gf5

  7. Aaron Mezger says:

    I misspoke slightly. I meant that the AMA teams had to build bikes to a lower spec than they normally ran.

  8. Aaron Mezger says:

    I misspoke slightly. I meant that the AMA teams had to build bikes to a lower spec than they normally ran.

  9. Bob Miller says:

    I guess this comparison was intended to make US feel good about the level of our racing. The truth of the matter is that the people who control, or have controlled US road racing, starting with the AMA, have mismanaged it so badly, it is lucky to be alive. The series has turned into an “amateur hour”, and I am not talking about the riders. Is there a retired CEO out there, who loves motorcycle racing, and has the foresight and experience to help USRR flourish? It probably doesn’t matter, even if there was, he or she wouldn’t be able to get control from the monkeys. Kevin Schwantz, if you are out there, I would be more than glad to help.

  10. FLABueller says:

    Take the electric nanny controls like traction and wheelie control off the Graves, Yosh and Jordan bikes and you’d have much different results.

  11. Mike G says:

    One word… tires. Hard to get a true comparison when both series run on different tires. Let’s assume the Dunlop is a lot better than the Pirelli, then it will make the American riders/bikes look faster than they would be against WSBK; however, the oppposite is also true, if Pirelli’s are better than the Dunlops, the American riders/bikes could possibly be higher up if they were Pirelli mounted.

    I know some U.S. riders rode in the WSBK races. Wouldn’t a better comparison be looking at the laps times of these riders in both AMA and WSBK sessions. However, that is assuming they were running their AMA spec bike, which I doubt they were.

    I love comparisons, but just not really possible to get a true apples to apples comparison.

  12. Lefty says:

    Mike G
    The riders in question only leave us with another apples/oranges type comparison. Jake Holden is currently 15th in the ASB standings and Shane Turpin is a Club racer/instructor these days.
    Hayes was running mid 149s to low 150s during the ASB race with Herrin, Young et al turning laps in the 150.xx range if memory serves.
    In other words, the top 5 or 6 AMA riders were running times comparable or very close to the WSBK guys

    http://sbk.perugiatiming.com/pdf_frame.asp?p_S_Campionato=SBK&p_Anno=2012&p_Round=USA
    http://www.amaproracing.com/rr/events/results.cfm

    Would love to see Hayes get a WSBK wildcard ride or two

  13. Mike G says:

    Lefty,

    Exactly. I don’t think a true comparison is possible from this race.

    After what Spies did, you would think WSBK would take a chance on the likes of Hayes or Young, especially Hayes with his pedigree and recent domination in AMA. I can only think that his age is his limiting factor. If Young can continue to develop, I see him being the next AMA rider to make the leap across the pond.

  14. twat says:

    There’s only a one second difference between the top ten fastest riders. Only two second difference between the top 26 fastest riders. Damn, talk about competitive.

  15. Halfie 30 says:

    @FLABueller, if you take electronic packages of the AMA bikes you would have to take them off the WSBK bikes as well. I don’t see your point…

  16. G says:

    In what universe is John Hopkins faster then Josh Hayes? Put them all on WSBK specs machines and then compare times.

  17. lefty says:

    FWIW: A quick look at AMA Superbike trap-speeds shows the leaders were running 181-183 mph with Herrin being the standout, recording 186 on one lap.
    WSBK trap-speeds varied much more, ranging from 185 mph (Checa’s Ducati) to 199 mph (BMW,Aprila)